The North Carolina Rural Center identified that out of the 100 counties in the state, 80 of them (80%) are classified as rural. A whole different world away from NC’s more urban areas but they add so much to our character. We wanted to learn more about the challenges they faced during the pandemic and their strengths so listen to this energizing chat with Brandy Bynum Dawson, senior director of policy and advocacy for the NC Rural Center.
The North Carolina Rural Center identified that out of the 100 counties in the state, 80 of them (80%) are classified as rural. A whole different world away from NC’s more urban areas but they add so much to our character. We wanted to learn more about the challenges they faced during the pandemic and their strengths so listen to this energizing chat with Brandy Bynum Dawson, senior director of policy and advocacy for the NC Rural Center.
In this episode, we cover…
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00:00 Kenneth Brown Jr: These days whenever I introduce myself. I make a point of saying that I am a North Carolina native. But growing up, I never really had much appreciation for my state or hometown. In many ways, it was the place I lived but as I have gotten older and explored the state more, I find myself sitting in a deep appreciation for North Carolina and wanting to see it succeed. I feel this very prominently when I take the back roads instead of the highway to get to a destination. You can just look around and see small businesses, houses, schools hustling and bustling towns and communities. Our guest today also sits in this appreciation as she works to support North Carolina Rural Communities.
Brandy Bynum Dawson: You know growing up, I didn't really have much appreciation for my rural, small town.01:00 It was like "Oh my gosh, I gotta get out of here." And you know where I grew up literally there's like no stoplights, no stores. There's like a post office, farmland, homes, and trees. I mean, trees and fields of corn and cotton and all those things. And now going home as an adult and when I became an adult and I would go home I would go "Man this is really beautiful" and at night being able to literally look up at the sky and see stars and skyscrapers aren't in the way and street lights aren't in the way to see the beauty of like nature and creation and I think for me it really was about where the opportunities to just enjoy all the goodness that life has to offer.
Kenneth Brown Jr: I’m Kenneth Brown Jr and this is Pivots, a podcast about navigating transitions, negotiating change, and reimagining our world.
While the pandemic 02:00 has deepened challenges especially in North Carolina’s rural areas, it has made us focus on what matters and how where we live should be robust areas of opportunity. Today our guest is Brandy Bynum Dawson, senior director of policy and advocacy for the North Carolina Rural Center and our conversion explores this tension of challenges and opportunity in our state’s rural places and how the best may be yet to come.
MUSIC: "Palms Down" by blue dot sessions
Kenneth Brown Jr: The first question to start off with, how do you define a pivot?
Brandy Bynum Dawson: It's funny you asked this question. I think it's obviously based on the title of the podcast and I sat with this since you and I had our initial conversations and this morning I asked my husband "Honey, how would you define a pivot?" and he immediately started to do the basketball pivot. The actual pivot in basketball and I was like "Oh yea, that is technically a pivot, right?" and he was like "Yea, it is." and I was like "That's not what I was looking for but thank you 03:00 helpful nonetheless." So, yea, with that, I would definitely say that how I define and looks a pivot is it's really an adaptation, an opportunity to move about, to remain flexible, and to identify obstacles and barriers in one's way whether individually or systemically or institutionally and at the same time, hopefully, still keeping one's sight on the light at the end of the tunnel, on the goal that one is seeking to achieve again whether to achieve an individual, institution or community perspective. So, it's an adaptation, it's an opportunity to remain flexible and to look at both sides of what that change might be. I think for the good, the bad, the positive, and or the negative.
KBJ: Right, speaking of keeping your eyes on the horizon. Can you explain what is the horizon that the North Carolina Rural Center is looking at? Kind of what you all do 04:00 and the work you all specifically do with them?
BBD: Our north star at the rural center has not changed in the over 30-year history that we've been in existence. So, since 1987, the Rural Center has really worked to improve the quality of life for our state's rural people and places, that who we are, that's our core belief. We are definitely believers that our rural communities have inherent cultural values and are vital to our overall economic health of our state. We are an economic development, focused organization nonprofit, nonpartisan organization that runs a number of programs across leadership development, engagement, small business lending, and the work that I do to the seat that I sit in is on the advocacy side. We also have research and data as an arm being able to identify what are those indicators, what are those outcomes that are driving economic development for rural North Carolina That's who we are as The Rural Center, the mission is to develop, promote, and implement, sound economic strategies to improve the overall quality of life of our state rural North Carolinians. 05:00
KBJ: Can you share a little bit about what pivoting has looked like for you all? Heading almost a year into this pandemic and by the time this episode is released, we'll be past that year mark. What kind of things have y'all have pivoted to or done?
BBD: We definitely pivoted like most organizations and even from an individual perspective. We are all mostly working remotely and have been for almost a year. There are some folks that head into the office to get files and have a different working space but for the most part, we all have been working remotely. That is I would say, one pretty present obvious difference or change for us and figuring out that we can still kind of do that and do it successfully. I think we're all working probably more hours as a result and has led to what I think a bit of disconnection We've brought on a number of new staff, haven't had a chance to meet us all in person, has had that kind of camaraderie opportunity to fellowship 06:00 with one another, kind of water cooler conversations, the hallways conversations, the popping into someone's office. We've definitely lost a sense of that but tried our best to really pivot, right, and shift to more virtual offerings, more virtual opportunities, and tried to be really creative about how we engage just on an individual and team level. Programatically, our programs look a little different. A number of our programs are really about going into community, the organization is about going in community and being with community, and engaging with community, and listening to community So we had to pivot those offerings to virtual vs.the in-person. That's definitely been, we're all missing being on the road. We have 80 rural counties across the state and not having those one-on-one personal connections has definitely been a loss but I think we've been really creative about how we continue to engage our communities from where they are. I think it has also allowed us to bring more people into the fold 07:00 in this sense by not physically having to drive somewhere necessarily to attend an event or a session but more so being able to click your mouse so to speak and kind of be able to engage in those ways. So, we've done a lot in the last year. I could talk a lot about our programming aspect but we've done a lot as far as shifting and pivoting in this last year.
KBJ: Gotcha, that is a lot. But it's nice that you all have managed to bring more people into the fold when you don't have to drive somewhere. Speaking of driving, you mentioned that North Carolina, 80 of its 100 counties are considered rural and I think some people may be like "You mean the North Carolina that Charlotte is in. The North Carolina that Raleigh is in, what do you mean?" What is your reaction when people may express surprise or shock 08:00 that North Carolina is a rural state especially when we talk about growth in this state and how the state is one of the fastest-growing states in the country, certain regions are some of the fastest-growing regions. How do you navigate all of that and what does that growth look like for you in the context of what you do?
BBD: That's a great question and I guess I would be shocked that people are surprised and probably just cause of my own viewpoint being a native rural North Carolina, being born and bred. I've always known that North Carolina is majority rural but I do understand that a lot of folks aren't aware of that because of our more urban and metropolitan areas, the big cities sot to speak and that being their frame of reference. In the way we define rural in North Carolina for the Rural Center rather is that there are 80 counties that have an average population density of two hundred and fifty (250) 09:00 people per square mile or less. For us, that definition results in those being 80 counties. Now, that's sort of changes from year to year depending on different flow or population density of certain communities, a number which has gone the other way or both sides of the direction if that makes sense. Counties that used to be rural are now more urban or metropolitan so to speak. We're happy to educate folks on what it means to be rural and I think we're very proud, a proud state to be mostly rural. I think it has a lot of advantages of being a really rural state. Obviously a lot of challenges right, that's the rural center's mission to identify those challenges but to also leverage those resources and assets. North Carolina does look different than it did 10 years ago and it'll look different 10 years from now I think those are also assets and opportunities for us to draw upon. Our people look different so demographically North Carolina looks different than it did 10 years ago and to that point 10:00 20 years from now it'll look even more different so how do we ensure that we are engaging people across all demographics, across all geographic sectors as such and being able to leverage those individuals, their knowledge base, their levels of engagement, and also being able to really showcase the skill sets and value that our people bring to this great state of North Carolina.
KBJ: That's good. Sometimes, I remember I took this mini getaway last summer in Rocky Mount and then I headed to the coast to just go sit on the beach for a couple of hours. Just driving through, just seeing there's not a lot in terms of skyscrapers or buildings, a lot of farmland, a lot of small towns, and whenever I'm driving around I just think about 11:00 this group of people ahs their challenges and issues too as people who live in mere bigger cities, urban areas but kind of just the same goal to create a better life for themselves and where they're at and for the community. I was wondering from your viewpoint in terms of those issues and challenges, what things have been exposed or exacerbated as a result of the pandemic?
BBD: So, I would say a number of issues have really risen to the top and drawn greater attention in almost immediacy level of response as well. For the rural center, these are issues that have been at the forefront of our minds for decades and issues that we have advocated upon, issues that we have developed a program to better support individuals impacted by those issues. 12:00 The issues list is pretty long. Issues like broadband, accessibility, and affordability, healthcare access- whether that means provider recruitment and retention or literally access to healthcare the system; meaning being able to afford health insurance for example. Housing; having safe, affordable, stable housing is an issue. Food insecurity, job security, workforce development, water and wastewater infrastructure, and small business development; allowing folks to have the creative space and resources to launch into entrepreneurship. There are a number of issues quite honestly, that I think have really been exacerbated particularly in rural communities but across the state, across the nation, just in general as a result of the pandemic.
KBJ: Gotcha, with your work, working in policy and advocacy, what does that look like, how do you advocate to fix 13:00 those challenges? How do you rally the community together? How do you go about that?
BBD: I'll definitely say, I don't want to paint a hugely negative issue, negative perception of the issues. There's a lot of challenges for sure. There's also been a lot of headway made. I'm very thankful to have an organization that continues to beat that drum and board and staff who are willing to fight tooth and nail to make sure that we're speaking truth to power about how best to meet those needs and address those really big issues. I think also equally so, we have a number of statewide partner organizations, local organizations, elected officials, who are all fighting for the same type of changes so I think that sense of togetherness, the opportunity to coordinate resources and energy, and opportunity to really try to address some of these big issues is where I feel most heartened because I think newfound, shown light on these issues to me, that's a huge opportunity. That to me is where we're able to kind of launch 14:00 right! There's like "Oh you get it now too! Let's work on that together." and identify, I would say, not just short-term immediate, which are necessary solutions but also how to ensure that we are addressing the root causes and systemic issues at play underlying why people don't have access to healthy food, while people don't have safe and affordable housing. We want to get people in a home now, how do we ensure that people 10 years from now aren't still with that same need. So, to me it's really about a both/and, the short-term solutions and the long-term solutions equally are important
KBJ: Whether it's personally or professionally, what have you been learning and what do you hope sticks around when this pandemic ends?
BBD: Yea, that's a really great question. I've learned a lot about myself for sure. When it comes to perseverance and endurance and multi-tasking. A lot of people would say about me "I'm a pretty great multi-tasker." I have a toddler and I feel like I've also become a preschool teacher, which I 15:00 really have. If you see my house, there's like numbers and letters and words, sight words everywhere because you want to make sure that he is getting what he needs despite the pandemic and we're able to support him in his growth and development. I would also say that it also personally allowed me to realize to rely on other people moreso. I'm a really independent kind of person, thinker, and doer, and realizing that you can't do everything. You can't say yes to all things all the time, right. I think delegation. Asking for support, asking for the things one needs to make sure that you're not overwhelming yourself and I think that self-care is really, really important. Self-care is really important. I think for folks that are really dedicated like me and I think millions of people are to the work they do and see the need for it, you tend to just work all the time and to be a better steward of your won't time and your own health, taking care of one's self is really, really important 16:00. So, I think personally, I've done more around exercise as much as one can, I would say. Also, drinking more water and giving myself a stretch break and those kinds of things. I think that personal self-care is really, really important and a point that more folks need to be aware of and mindful of is taking care of one's self before you take care of other people.
KBJ: Right, it's like that airplane analogy. You gotta put your oxygen mask on before you can help someone else.
BBD: That's right and I think that's what I would want to stick around. Despite all the horror that has come with this pandemic, particularly people losing their lives, and losing homes, and losing jobs, and losing loved ones, that it's also giving folks, I'll speak for myself, more time to sit and think about what really matters. What's really, really important and taking time for self, taking time for family, and re 17:00 evaluating the important, what really matters in life. I think this has allowed me and myself and others that I'm really close with to have that self-sense of retrospection if that makes sense, and to really look at from outside-in or inside-out so to speak, kind of what's really important, and value the things that are really going to move the needles either personally or professionally and policy-wise, I'll say. Really important.
KBJ: Speaking of being retrospective, I know some people when they go through a major pivot, a major challenge, there are some things from their past that they might latch on or might rely on that has kind of guides them through a major shift. Do you have any experiences or moments like that? That you find yourself either remembering more of often or thinking about more.
BBD: I would definitely say just being a native rural North Carolinians 18:00 Growing up, I didn't really have much appreciation for my rural small town. It was like "Oh my gosh, I gotta get out of here." And you know where I grew up literally there's like no stoplights, no stores. There's like a post office, farmland, homes, and trees. I mean, trees and fields of corn and cotton and all those things. And now going home as an adult and when I became an adult and I would go home I would go "Man, this is really beautiful" and at night being able to literally look up at the sky and seeing stars and skyscrapers aren't in the way and street lights aren't in the way to see the beauty of nature and creation and I think for me it really was about where the opportunities to just enjoy all the goodness that life has to offer. And being able to really rely on my roots 19:00 and where I grew up. I think that's what really has been able to ground me through my life and career is the support system, the network, the beauty that I had to live around, I just didn't realize it. I was a youngster so to speak. Now working at the rural Center, rural has always been in my DNA. I've worked in rural communities for a lot of my career. So, I guess it's like a full circle coming back around home, if that makes sense and recognizing that growth I'll say within me but also personally and professionally.
KBJ: A memory is coming back in my head of my aunt. my family has this thanksgiving tradition to go to our aunt's house and she lives in Efland and I just remember when I was younger driving out there was like "This is like in the middle of nowhere. There's no one around. There's no street lights. I feel like I might get jumped out here. What's going on?" But as 20:00 I have gotten older because my folks, they just linger around places and so we wouldn't leave until 9 or 10 at night but just going outside and look up and truly seeing like "Wow, these are stars." it really is something. It really is something and I can sense your passion and your excitement for working in rural communities and I was wondering Why? What makes you, what rural communities? What makes you excited to work with them? What's your why?
BBD: That's a really great question and I would say, it has to be in my DNA. Where I landed at the rural center is meant to be. I say that all the time because I truly, truly mean that, as a native rural North Carolina, I've always known that while there's a number of issues that has been and continues to plague rural communities there's so many beautiful assets 21:00, particularly in the people and once you got to one rural community they're not all the same, right? You meet different people all across all 80 counties of rural North Carolina. There's a lot of beautiful people doing amazing things, who are super committed to seeing their community's outcomes improve and to change. They are hardworking folks, dedicated people. I think that's what drives me. That's me. That's who I am. So, to be around more people just like that is such a beautiful experience and I feel so fortunate for that. That's what really drives me. I love a good challenge and I love to see policy and systems change that are really going to make a difference in the lives of people not just today but generations from now.
Music: "Nightlight" by blue dot sessions
KBJ: Speaking of generation from now, when you wake up 22:00 10 years from now and look outside your window, what do you hope to see for North Carolina's rural communities?
BBD: Well, on that note I'll be 10 years older so that should be interesting right. That's something exciting to look for right, and I'll have a 14-year-old so whew, life will be definitely different for me now that I'll have a teenager at that point. When it comes to rural communities, what I want to see is more opportunity for folks. I want to see that there are jobs available. I want to see that folks are able to have the opportunity for coaching and skill development, to take those jobs that are 10 years from now. Not about taking a job that also exists but also about creating your own opportunity. I want to see more entrepreneurs. I want to see more entrepreneurs of color. I want to see more communities that are thriving. More healthy food stores within communities, particularly marginalized communities. 23:00 I want to see that our healthcare system is no longer struggling. I want to see that people have access to affordable, high-quality health insurance no matter their income. I want to see that every student has access to high-speed, every household for that matter, has access to affordable high-speed broadband, right. I want to see that our state's water and wastewater infrastructure system is stable, that people have access to safe drinking water and systems and local governments that are able to be stable and secure for the long haul. I want to see so much for rural communities because our people in rural communities deserve that much.
KBJ: Right. Let's just sit with that for a second. They deserve that much. (Silence)
KBJ: What gives you hope?
24:00
BBD: I think what gives me hope is that I guess I'm not shy, number 1, and you can definitely hear the passion in my voice, is that there are more people out here that have that same passion, and have that same drive, and have that same commitment. That there are generations of young people and kids born or not yet seen the light of day just yet that are looking to us to ensure that they have a place to call home. That they're able to lead successful, productive lives, and to grow up to be successful, productive adults. I want to leave this world a better place for the people that come behind me. Speaking of which, my own child is looking to me and he loves the Rural Center. He knows what mommy does and I think for him, it really is about he wants to see change and he understands. He says he wants to be like a firefighter and a swimmer and has all these dreams and aspirations and for him and kids like him, I want to see those dreams come true.
KBJ: Right 25:00 A final question to end on. People listening to this, we all have gone through a collective transformation. I know that some people just may be looking for a piece of advice, or a word, or something to help guide them. I was wondering for someone listening, looking for that, what message or words would you share with someone going through a major pivot?
BBD: I would say, to lean into the pivot, to learn into the change, as hard as it might be in the moment, there is always light at the end of the tunnel. Once one is on the other side of that pivot oh the opportunity that one would be able to See. So stick with it, see the opportunity in it and ask for support where there is needed 26:00. Don't feel like you have to go through anything alone. I think there's a lot of just general uncertainty in life. I think the one that is true that together we can do almost anything.
KBJ: Wow, I feel fired up and ready to go now. I feel ready to run through a brick wall!
BBD: I think that I just gave myself a pep talk too!
Music: "Plum King" by blue dot sessions
KBJ: How can people learn more about the Rural Center? How can people get involved? Where can the people go?
BBD: Please go to the Rural Center's website, www dot n-c-rural center dot org. You can find out all about the Rural Center, its history, the programs, sign up for our listserv's sign-ups for our newsletters. Stay involved. Stay engaged. The hat that I wear at 27:00 the Rural Center is in the policy and advocacy space and you want to make sure that your voice is heard and you need to get involved in the advocacy community. We have plenty of opportunities for folks to stay engaged, to get engaged, and to also connect with your elected readers. We provide support and training for folks to be able to feel comfortable doing that but if you want to see the needle move on issues, really major issues plaguing rural North Carolina the Rural Center is where that's at.
KBJ: Awesome, thank you very much
BBD: Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.
KBJ: Brandy Bynum Dawson is Senior Director of Policy and Advocacy for the North Carolina Rural Center working to improve the quality of life for the state’s rural people and places
KBJ: You’ve been listening to Pivots, a podcast on navigating transition, negotiating change, 28:00, and reimagining our world. Pivots is a project the A.J Fletcher Foundation produced and hosted by me. Kenneth Brown Jr. Our music is composed by blue dot sessions. Sound effects from free sound.org. You can hear this episode and more anytime wherever you listen to podcasts or go to our show page at www dot pivots-a-j-f dot simplecast dot com.
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See you next time.